ReFo: Raiders @ Seahawks, Week 9

Thomas Maney runs through some of the noteworthy performances from Seattle's Week 9 win over Oakland.

| 2 years ago
2014-REFO-WK09-OAK@SEA

ReFo: Raiders @ Seahawks, Week 9


2014-REFO-WK09-OAK@SEAOakland keeps coming close, but still can’t manage to find their elusive first victory, this time losing in Seattle 30-24. Early on this looked like a Seattle rout as they took a 24-3 lead into halftime, but the Raiders made it interesting with 14 unanswered points in the third quarter and another late score to come within a touchdown, forcing a tough onside kick recovery by Jermaine Kearse to ice the game.

Unfortunately, it won’t get any easier for the 0-8 Raiders with AFC West games against Denver and San Diego coming in the next two weeks. Conversely, Seattle moved to 5-3 on the season, but remains two games behind Arizona in the NFC West.

Oakland Raiders – Performances of Note

D.J Hayden, CB: -1.7

Breakdown: After logging five snaps in his season debut a week ago, Hayden played 71 snaps against Seattle with mixed results. Almost came away with two interceptions, but held onto neither as he allowed just two catches for 25 yards in seven targets. However, both catches gained first down yardage and he was out of positon on two others but benefitted from offensive errors. Further bringing down his grade was a missed tackle in run defense and a pair of penalties (pass interference and taunting).

Signature Play: 3Q, 14:07. Made a great break on the ball, but unable to catch the potential pick-six, merely forcing a punt on the play.

Derek Carr, QB: -4.9

Breakdown: Accuracy was an issue as Carr completed just three passes over 10 yards in the air (compared to two for Russell Wilson), and just couldn’t move the Oakland offense consistently. Fumbled and threw two interceptions, and almost had a third on what might have been his worst play of the game at 2:00 of the fourth when LB Kevin Pierre-Louis couldn’t haul in what would likely would have been a pick-six.

Signature Stat: Carr finished with one completion and a 2.3 YPA when blitzed.

Austin Howard and Menelik Watson, OL: -8.7

Breakdown: It also makes it difficult to play quarterback when the offensive line doesn’t provide much support, and that was the case, particularly on the right side with neither Watson nor Howard having any answers for Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett.

Signature Play: 3Q, 7:42. Howard whiffed on his attempt to block Avril as the Seahawk got inside to drop Darren McFadden for a 2-yard loss.

Seattle Seahawks – Performances of Note

K.J Wright, LB: +4.9

Breakdown: Brought down McFadden for a short gain on Oakland’s first play and it was much of the same for the rest of the game as Wright picked up 13 tackles and a massive nine defensive stops, excelling in both run defense and coverage.

Signature Play: 1Q, 9:19. Got his hand on the ball to deny Oakland a first down on a pass intended for Michael Rivera.

Marshawn Lynch, RB: +3.6

Breakdown: Lynch wasn’t bad as a rusher, forcing four missed tackles and picking up 40 of his 67 yards after contact, but this was more about his work as a receiver catching all five targets for 102 yards, including two huge screen passes. Check out 1:03 of the third quarter, when Lynch made TJ Carrie and Charles Woodson whiff with a pair of good cuts on his way to a 39-yard gain.

Signature Play: 3Q: 13:52.  It might go unnoticed with Christine Michael breaking a pair of tackles on his 7-yard run, but he received some big help from his teammate as Lynch took Sio Moore completely out of the play and finished by putting the LB on the ground.

Michael Bennett, DL: +3.6

Breakdown: Had a field day against Oakland’s right side as he collected seven pressures, and that number would have been higher if not for Derek Carr’s quick release on a number of plays.

Signature Play: 4Q, 4:14. Picked up a facemask to nullify the play, but that shouldn’t take away from how quickly and easily Bennett rounded RG Austin Howard to get into the backfield.

PFF Game Ball

He didn’t get a mention here, but Richard Sherman was at his best against the Raiders, allowing just two catches for 15 yards and a 2.8 QB rating while getting his hands on a pair of passes.

 

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  • cordt

    in before shitfest about Wilson

  • Anthony

    The defensive grades you guys gave Oakland for this game made the least sense of any game I’ve ever seen you guys grade. We shut down Seattle on 85 percent of their drives and yet we came out with a minus 11 overall on defense for the grade… like what? Did we get that lucky on those drives.

    • eYeDEF

      Did your team really shutdown the other side on 85 percent of those drives? I don’t think they did, I seem to recall a lot of unforced errors by Wilson on 3rd downs. I think you need to take another look at those drives.

      • [email protected]

        Compared to their offense their defense was fantastic.

        • eYeDEF

          Outside of some heads up play by Khalil Mack, that really isn’t saying a whole lot.

          • [email protected]

            Of course, they are 0-8 for a reason.

    • David Wilson

      Agreed. The Raiders defense played very well for long periods of this game, and outside of the two TD’s, played vert well againsr the run. Sio Moore’s grade in particular is a joke.

    • Mike Sutton

      Seattle’s offensive coordinator, like he always does, shut down the offense when they got a big lead. This is commonplace in Seattle. It’s why they don’t blow many teams out.

      • Dohkay

        In the last 2+ seasons Seattle has 14 wins of 15+ points with an average score in those games of 37-10. They blow people out.

        • Mike Sutton

          The key number there being 10.

      • eYeDEF

        Bevell is not to blame for the lack of blowouts this year. That’s on the team. There were enough crushing blowouts to go around last year with Bevell as OC, but are in short supply this year. The offense went into hibernation because Wilson just flat out stunk. It was hard to tell who he was even trying to target on some passes.

        • [email protected]

          True he had a bad game, but there were a lot of things that made his job very difficult. It was a really wet and rainy game, his offensive line was patchwork, and his receivers are below average.

          • eYeDEF

            The rain shouldn’t be used as an excuse. This is his 3rd year playing in Seattle. I agree that his receiving corps has been pretty terrible this year, particularly Kearse and Willson. Willson caught one of five passes thrown his way and Kearse caught only one of seven. But to be fair to Kearse, some of those targets were just flat out bad passes by Wilson, including the two he threw straight to Hayden that were intended for Kearse, and at least two more I can think of on 3rd down in the 2nd quarter where he threw it way too high on one, and behind him on another. Great QBs are supposed to raise the level of play of their supporting cast of receivers, not sink to their level. I’d be less concerned if this seemed like one of those off days that every QB has once in awhile. But he really didn’t play well in Carolina too except on the final drive. Something is off with him and I just hope it’s not the lingering affects of the Harvin hangover or locker room issues getting to his head.

          • [email protected]

            So Peyton Manning wasn’t affected by the Seattle defense or the cold in New England? Tom Brady wasn’t affected by the loss of Gronkowski?

          • eYeDEF

            Don’t really understand your point. Peyton has a history of playing poorly in temperatures under 40 degrees. Wilson has no such history of playing poorly in rain. If he did, Seattle’s the wrong team for him to be playing for don’t you think? There were numerous home games last year when it was raining when he played just fine. And like I just pointed out, regardless of how poorly his receivers might be there were four passes I just cited where he was just flat out inaccurate and threw the ball in a spot that the receiver had no shot at catching it. Actually I think Wilson himself would be embarrassed by the types of excuses you’re offering up for him in your descent into apologia. He has no problem owning the fact that he inexplicably played poorly.

          • [email protected]

            My point is that if an ‘elite’ quarterback is unaffected by anything that happens that there is no such thing as an elite quarterback. Name one QB who hasn’t had a bad game this year?

          • eYeDEF

            And my point that you appear to have missed is that this has become more than just having a bad game. He’s played poorly in 3 of his last 4 games, so this has unfortunately become a worrisome trend. Elite quarterbacks don’t suffer prolonged slumps because it goes against the very definition of being elite. Not that I think Wilson is elite, at least not yet. Nor am I saying this mini slump is insurmountable, but he’ll need to right the ship soon for the team to have any hope of the playoffs this year. I’m just expressing my disappointment that he’s not progressing as fast as I would have hoped and given all his focus, dedication, and intangibles I did think he was past the sort of slump we saw out of him in the last quartet of last season. I’m bummed that hasn’t been the case.

          • [email protected]

            Wilson has never played poorly in his entire career. He has never gone out and thrown a bunch of picks and cost his team the game. He has had games where he wasn’t great.

          • eYeDEF

            Sorry my eyes tell me differently. I guess I just have higher standards than you. I thought he played poorly last Sunday.

          • [email protected]

            What i am saying, is that even when he’s not playing well he still takes care of the football and gives his team a chance. Most other QB’s will lose you the game on a bad day.

          • eYeDEF

            But that’s not even true seeing as to how he threw two picks that were dropped. He wasn’t ‘taking care of the football’ on those bad passes. One was a certain pick 6 if Hayden hung onto it, which would have been a difference in the margin of victory. That would be what is known as ‘losing you the game’. The game was not won because of his care in taking ‘care of the football’, but rather because of the other side’s ineptitude of not taking ‘care of the football’.

          • [email protected]

            A lot of picks are dropped. That happens to every QB. As a rookie QB he had a QB->Int ratio of 2.7 over a full season. Who else has done that? Nobody.

          • eYeDEF

            And this is where I point out that your opinion doesn’t count for much because you’re a straight up liar. A lot of interceptions that were perfect passes my ass. He’s had three picks all year and only one, against Carolina, bounced off of Marshawn’s hands to turn a surefire TD into a turnover. You don’t seem to understand that I’m a Seahawks and Wilson fan so you’re not going to be able to bullshit his tape to me when I watch his games, analyze his play, and am intimately familiar with his every performance. Of his other picks, one was a perfect pass alright, delivered perfectly into the waiting arms of Rolando McClain to abort his final comeback attempt and seal the Dallas victory. The other came on a horrible decision to stare down Percy before trying to force a pass through a minuscule window while Percy was covered by Chris Harris Jr. Meanwhile he fails to notice Talib had read him all the way so had abandoned his coverage on Richardson to make a diving play his pass he tipped to CHJ. It was a crucial 4th quarter turnover too that allowed Peyton to rally for the comeback and game tying drive.

            What’s hilarious is that only you and maybe about 2 others of the most deluded homers in the world would try and claim he’s ‘taking care of the football’ when he’s throwing flat out inaccurate passes straight to the opposing team’s DBs. Uh, no he’s not. Not in the real world at least. But it appears in your world, up is down, black is white, food is poison, and passing off falsehoods is perfectly acceptable so long as you can hoodwink someone that Wilson’s mistakes aren’t really mistakes at all. LOL! Sorry but the hard reality isn’t predicated on his noble intentions, it’s dictated by how he performs. And your transparently broken rationalizations trying to claim otherwise are just embarrassing.

          • [email protected]

            You might want to point that finger at yourself. Russell Wilson has the fewest interceptions(tied) of any QB who has played in 7 games.

            When i said he’s had many interceptions that were credited to him that weren’t his fault, i meant in his career. That should be obvious.

          • eYeDEF

            LoL. But I just told you that he’s only had 3 picks all year. Did you just learn that he’s got the fewest interceptions? Wait, what happened to the ‘he’s had a lot of interceptions’ narrative you were pushing before? You gotta get your stories straight kiddo because you lack coherency from post to post. That’s what happens when you compulsively lie all the time, you start losing track of which lies you tried to pass off and start contradicting yourself. That’s when people realize that your opinion doesn’t count for much because you’re so lacking in credibility. Sorry but it’s true.

          • [email protected]

            Only an idiot would think i meant this year when i said that. I meant in his career he’s had a lot of interceptions credited to him that weren’t his fault. I think it goes without saying that he hasn’t had a lot of them this year when he’s only had 3.

          • eYeDEF

            Wahahahahaha. oh so is that what you meant? For his career? that’s funny because I know exactly how many passes that he’s thrown that have been deflected by his receiver and turned into an interception in his career and if you had any idea you would never have claimed that it was a lot. In fact the number is actually quite miniscule. This time I won’t bother reciting to you exactly when they happened in excruciating detail like I did last time for you to claim credit like new along. A compulsive liar like you has not earned that right. Once again scott you keep proving to everyone that the true idiot is you. There’s a popular saying that you might want to consider … when you’re in a hole stop digging.

          • [email protected]

            Do you always talk about how much you are winning the argument in the middle of it? Who are you trying to convince? Yourself?

            You are sad.

          • eYeDEF

            I never played that game as a little kid you perv.

          • [email protected]

            You are the one who is embarrassing. Ive been a Seahawks fan since the 1970’s. We finally have a good team and people like you just want to bitch and cry.

          • uh-oh

            The phrase elite leads to tiresome discussions.

          • [email protected]

            I agree, i was not the one who used it originally.

  • Anthony

    I don’t buy it. I think you guys need to take another look at the grades you gave my guys

  • Dohkay

    Props to Wilson on improving his record when the defense gives up 24 or more to 2-7 all-time! Granted the 6 point victory margin was thanks to an interception returned for a TD by Bruce Irvin but still impressive nonetheless!

    • [email protected]

      This game is certainly not going on his highlight reel. Even on a very bad day he still didn’t commit a turnover and this game was never in doubt.

      • Dohkay

        Indeed, he showed incredible jedi mind skills by making Hayden drop an easy pick-6 and another easy INT late in the 4th quarter. Hopefully PFF graded him positively for that.

        The game was never in doubt… because it was against the winless Raiders at home. I truly hope the game is never in doubt against that team!

        • [email protected]

          So are we going to go back and take away the interceptions that weren’t his fault? He plays relatively mistake free football on a regular basis.

          • Dohkay

            Agreed. The defense and offense both look like shells of the units that played last year.

          • [email protected]

            That tends to happen when half the players are missing.

      • eYeDEF

        It’s hard to understand how you could credit him for not committing a turnover when that came entirely down to DJ Hayden’s inability to hang onto two passes that bounced off his hands.

        • uh-oh

          Since we aren’t counting dropped passes by receivers, why would we count dropped interceptions?

          • Dohkay

            Except they do…

          • eYeDEF

            Because the OP was trying to credit Wilson for not committing a turnover when the reality is that the only reason he didn’t was not because of any heads up play or attention to ball security on his part. Quite the opposite when he literally all but gift wrapped two balls delivered straight to the DB. This really shouldn’t be a difficult concept to understand, especially seeing how you’re on a stat site that grades player performances the same way.

          • [email protected]

            If you think Russell Wilson isn’t thinking about ball security 100% of the time then i dont know what to tell you. You must be watching a different game than i am. I guess its just an accident he’s always had at least 2.7 TD’s per pick even in his rookie season.

          • eYeDEF

            Because whether it’s an interception, reception, or drop is totally irrelevant. All we care about is how the QB played and a pass delivered to the DB is a bad pass. The point of grading QBs is to isolate his performance as much as possible from all other variables in order to get the fairest sense of how he played. That’s why accurate passes that receivers drop aren’t negatively graded on the QB. The receiver is expected to make the catch there. Inaccurate passes thrown straight to a DB does reflect poorly on the QB’s grade because it was a bad pass that should have been picked off regardless of whether the DB drops the ball. By allowing a random and external variable such as whether a DB can hang onto a pass delivered straight to him to affect the QBs grade would completely skew the final grade into partially being a reflection of whether the DBs he faced had hands of stones or not. That would be a dumb and unreliable evaluation of the QB.

    • Mike Sutton

      Career stats

      Completion percentage: Stafford – 59.7%, Wilson – 63.4%
      Average Yds per pass: Stafford – 7.04, Wilson – 7.82
      TDs: Stafford (6th year, 2796 passing attempts) – 120, Wilson (3rd year, 1042 passing attempts) – 63
      QBR: Stafford – 52.83, Wilson – 63.83
      Passer Rating: Stafford – 83.5, Wilson – 98.9
      Top career target: Stafford – Calvin Johnson, Wilson – Golden Tate

      Tell you what, why don’t you stay in Detroit and worry about your quarterback, instead of trying to crap on another one that’s not even in your division?

      • Dohkay

        Average points allowed by defense: Stafford 25.4, Wilson 16.3
        Average rush yards by RBs: Stafford 90.1, Wilson 114.2

        Do you think those may have helped?

        By the way, thanks for Golden Tate. 599 yards and 3 TDs over the last 5 games with Calvin limited or out. I wonder if Stafford has anything to do with him suddenly being a top tier WR???

        • Mike Sutton

          Golden Tate was a great receiver when he was here too. Seattle is just a run-first offense. Not sure why you included Wilson’s far superior rushing yards as a stat against him either…

          Yeah, Seattle’s defense is better than Detroit’s. Not sure what that has to do with quarterbacks. I didn’t include wins, because I don’t think that’s something that can be attributed directly to a quarterback (most of the time… for some teams it definitely can), but discounting a QB with superior numbers because he also has a better defense proves more of a point than I ever could with… you know…. stats.

          • Dohkay

            Please re-read the part where it says “rush yards by RBs”. Those are numbers excluding QB yards.

            Do you think it’s easier to put up superior efficiency stats (QB Rating, QBR, TD %, INT %, YPA) when you don’t have to throw as often? How about when you throw in a great running game to boot?

            Let me answer for you using Wilson’s own stats. In games where his defense gives up 17 or less, his Rating is 103.4, TD % is 6.1%, INT % is 1.5%, and YPA is 8.1. He throws the ball 24 times per game with a 64.1% completion %. His RBs average 123 YPG in those instances.

            For some reason though, in games where his defense gives up 24 or more his numbers get worse. His rating is 93.4, TD % is 5.0%, INT % is 2.2%, and YPA is 7.5. He throws the ball 31 times per game with a 62.7% completion %. His RBs average 96 YPG in those instances.

            Now, mind you, Wilson has played 27 of his 45 career games with a defense that surrenders 17 or less (60% of his career) and only 9 games where his defense surrenders 24 or more (20% of his career). The average points allowed in those 24+ instances? 28.0

            Stafford has played 16 of his 66 career games with a defense that surrenders 17 or less (24.2% of his career) and, wait for it, 38 games where his defense surrenders 24 or more (57.6% of his career). The average points allowed in those 24+ instances? 31.7.

            His numbers in 17 or less scenarios are very similar to Wilson’s by the way. Rating is 96.9, TD % is 5.1%, INT % is 1.8%, YPA is 7.6. He throws the ball 34 times per game with a 63.4% completion %. His RBs only average 83 YPG though.

            TL; DR: Put Stafford in Seattle and the “gunslinger” would be just fine.

          • Mike Sutton

            Of course he would. I’m not trying to say he’s a poor QB by any means, simply that you’re reaching extremely far to try to make Wilson look like a bad quarterback. He’s got some of the best numbers in his first two years when compared to any quarterback, ever. You can try to point to any intangibles you want, but it doesn’t change that fact, however, here’s another intangible for you.

            In 2 1/2 seasons, Wilson has 9 4th quarter comebacks and 12 game-winning drives. In 5 1/2 seasons, Stafford has 12 4th quarter comebacks and 14 game-winning drives.

          • Dohkay

            I’m not saying he’s bad. I have him around 10-12 in my QB rankings. He’s above average, but he’s not elite despite what many Hawks fans and media like to think. With regards to the comebacks, once again, you need to acknowledge the defense.

            Wilson has comebacks with the average score of the opposition being 15.75. Stafford’s have been with the average score of the opposition being 25.57. That’s almost 10 points! Six of Wilson’s comebacks have been with the opposition having scored 7, 9, 12, 13, 13, and 14 points through 4 quarters. Stafford’s defenses have surrendered 14 or less in twelve games in his CAREER. Those “comebacks” shouldn’t have been decided in the 4th quarter. They should have been over by the first half.

          • Mike Sutton

            I’ve got him at probably 7 or 8, so not too far off. There are fans of every team that think they have the best players in football. I think everyone is still hyped on Wilson’s potential, which is well-deserved. He’s had such a small sample size, and we’ll see how he does with more roster turnover and after he gets his big check, but the numbers so far have been stellar for a new QB.

          • Dohkay

            Hear ya on the potential. I’m still all-in on Stafford (who is actually only 10 months older than Wilson). He finally has a legit defense and hopefully will have healthy weapons going forward.

          • Mike Sutton

            Yeah, Stafford is a lot of fun to watch. I really hope Wilson doesn’t have to deal with the injury issues that Stafford has, beacuse that can be somewhat of a career killer, especially for Wilson who relies on his athletecism as much, or more than, his arm.

          • Dohkay

            Stafford has been an ironman since then (now he’ll probably get hurt Sunday…). Wilson seems to have a knack for avoiding the nasty hits. RG3 could use some advice on that style.

          • Mike Sutton

            Well, RG3 has a ton of raw talent, but he lacks football intelligence. I think that’s one of Wilson’s strongest assets. I’ve noticed this year that Wilson’s accuracy has been much poorer than the past two, but he VERY rarely makes a mental mistake, which is why I think he’s going to be much more successful than RG3. The physical skills will improve, especially with how much Wilson works on them, I think the mental side of it is much harder to hone for professional athletes.

          • Dohkay

            Agree to disagree on RG3. I think he’s a good QB but it’s hard to tell if his poor play is stemming from his bad legs or bad decisions.

          • Mike Sutton

            Don’t get me wrong, Seattle’s offense has a LOT of improving to do. While I think Wilson is a top 10 QB in football right now, the rest of the offense needs a big pickup. Tate was a weapon that was poorly utilized, as was Harvin (probably moreso than Tate). Their offensive line is among the worst in the football for the third straight year and somehow, they’re still getting worse.

            Wilson is a key piece in improving the offense, but I really really hope they put some more tools around him. Adding Paul Richardson is fantastic and I think he’s going to be a stellar receiver going forward, but if they don’t fix their OL and TE situations, their offense will continue to sputter.

          • Dohkay

            Disagree on him being top-10 (by a hair or two) but no arguments on everything else. You are neglecting to mention his major asset on the offense and that’s Marshawn Lynch. If they let him go after this season it will be even uglier next year.

          • Mike Sutton

            No argument on Lynch, though I think they have to let him go. He’s due for a sharp decline and they’ve got more long-term players they need to extend. Seattle has two very able running backs in Turbin and Michael, which they are plugging into the offense more and more each week, but there really isn’t anyone else in the NFL like Lynch.

            That said, if they can improve their offensive line, both the running backs, and Wilson’s numbers will sky rocket. I’m not familiar with the skill level of Detroit’s offensive line, but Wilson is NEVER able to sit in the pocket and find a receiver. If it’s not a quick slant pass, Wilson makes things happen on the run, which is both exciting and terrifying.

          • Dohkay

            We’re in the same boat with regards to the OL. That’s a big reason while Stafford missed so much time in 09 and 10 😉

            Wilson’s line is bad but he’s been in the top 10 in terms of Time to Sack for the last 2+ seasons. Part of that is obviously his elusiveness but also due to him holding on to the ball as long as he can (which makes his pressure % higher than it should be). Not saying that’s a negative on him since it opens up the big plays but I think his OL struggles are a bit overblown. They’re bad but they’re not awful.

          • Mike Sutton

            Oh man, they’re awful. I cannot even imagine how good both Lynch and Wilson would be with Seattle’s 05-07 offensive line (the sole reason they made it to the SB in 05 and how Shaun Alexander won the MVP in 06). I know they’re trying to fix it through the draft, but they haven’t really “found it” yet.

            If you want to talk about overrated Seahawks players, Russell Okung has to be at the top of that list, and until he was just traded away, Brandon Browner.

          • Dohkay

            Ha yeah Steve Hutchinson walks and Shaun Alexander stays… oops!

          • Mike Sutton
          • Dohkay

            He’s missing some key guys, particularly on the OL which would definitely add to his struggles but you can make that case for a lot of teams. Besides, his OL was terrible last year and he overcame it, right? He’s missing his top 2 TEs (Wilson and Miller) but they combined for 50 receptions and 650 yards last season. Not necessarily losing key contributors like a Graham or Gronk. Losing Tate hurts (60 catches and 900 yards) but last year people were saying he didn’t have a true #1 WR and this year Tate has been a #1 for Detroit with Megatron out. Harvin didn’t play last regular season so I don’t even consider him a loss and they did draft a WR in the second round to address some of the loss at the WR position. Plus he still has Lynch and Turbin.

            On the topic of Lynch… You’d think the OL injuries would hurt him the most as he relies on them to run but he’s averaging 4.2 YPC just like last season not to mention he’s on pace to set a career high in receptions and receiving yards.

          • Mike Sutton

            Lynch has been ridiculous. He NEVER makes it back to the line without shaking at least one tackle.

            Losing Miller hurts their OL more than a potential receiver. He really wasn’t targetted a whole lot last year, but was a beast of a blocker on the outside. And yeah, missing guys on the OL is a case that can be made for a lot of teams, but missing 4 (5 if you include Miller, who blocks more than he runs routes) of their starters, with the only one left being a guy that was just converted to a RG this year from a DT?

            That’s not just an OL struggling with injury. That’s a DECIMATED offensive line. Last year, Wilson made miracles happen again and again. This year he’s still making them happen, but not all of them are coming through.

          • eYeDEF

            Hey at least your team nabbed a stud like Larry Warford in the 3rd round to help anchor your offensive line. That’s the sort of pick that Seattle would never have had enough foresight to choose.

          • Dohkay

            Come on now, you guys got Sweezy in the 7th round and he’s at least been serviceable which is more than you can ask for at that draft position. Wright, Thurmond, Chancellor, Smith, Sherman all in round 4 or later… maybe Seattle can only draft stud defensive players?

          • eYeDEF

            You can’t be serious. Sweezy? The guy has been a middling project pick of Tom Cable’s. I guess you haven’t heard but Seattle is utterly incapable of drafting for their offensive and defensive lines. It’s why the offensive line perpetually blows chunks and the front office has to go out and buy stud defensive linemen in free agency. Even the serviceable starters on the DL we’ve had were obtained via trade or holdovers from the previous regime. Warford was a stud practically from the moment he stepped on the field as a rookie, almost unheard of for offensive lineman taken after the first round and definitely not a position group Seattle is capable of drafting well in any round. We also traded away Rob Sims to you guys and while he isn’t what he used to be he would have been an upgrade over anything we’ve had at guard since.

          • Dohkay

            I meant that for a 7th round pick he’s performed well. Not that it means he is a solid start by any means. Agreed that you haven’t seemed to hit on OL or DL but to be fair most of the Lions starters are top 10 picks (Suh, Fairley, Ansah) and we got Jason Jones from you guys while you got Cliff Avril from us. OL the Lions hit on Warford which was nice to see and they’ve gotten a decent starter (hopefully) in Waddle who was undrafted. Reiff is a first rounder and Sims/Raiola are finished but agreed that Sims was very good for us prior to this season.

          • eYeDEF

            So what is the deal with your team this year, are they for real? Is that defense for real? Their pass rush is surely legit, but I’m unclear on the rest of the defense. I like Detroit and will be pulling for them in the playoffs should my team come up short. They seem to finally have all the offensive weapons in place, especially when Calvin returns. I’m just surprised their defense has been playing at such a consistently high level. I don’t see any reason why they couldn’t make a strong run this year so long as Stafford is not psychologically scarred from the late season swoons and one postseason failure. It’s early enough in his career that I don’t believe that he is unlike Romo.

          • Dohkay

            Waddle has been injured which is why he has missed time. The defense was actually pretty good last season, too, they just had a few bad games and were put in bad positions by the turnovers on offense. Slay looks like an above average corner and Quin and Ihedigbo are above average safeties. We haven’t had three above average players in the secondary in a loooooong time.

            I think Stafford is becoming more of a game manager, especially with Megatron out. Similar to Wilson, the mantra is ball control and letting the opportunities come rather than forcing it and for the first time in his career he can do that since the defense has been so good. With Calvin back though I think the offense will start humming. Calvin and Tate are one of the better 1-2 punches out there.

          • Griffonian

            Stafford has 80 interceptions in 69 career games. The Lions are 0-1 in the Playoffs in the 5 years Stafford has been there. Go worry about your own damn team that never gets it done. Or have you already forgotten about your 0-16 season just a few years ago, and you’ve lost your humility?

            Hopefully the Lions don’t choke once again this season. They are very proficient at doing that though.

          • Dohkay

            LOL!

        • Mike Sutton

          Since you brought up more stats, I’ll do the same.

          Rushing yards: Stafford – 437, Wilson – 1421
          Passing TD percentage: Stafford – 4.3%, Wilson – 6%

  • [email protected]

    This was not a close game, Oakland got nothing on offense until garbage time at the end. Seattle is not a style points team.

    • eYeDEF

      Uh, actually if you were being honest you’d recognize that had Seattle not barely recovered the onside kick at the end of the game they were truly in danger of losing because Carr had rallied the team back.

      • [email protected]

        Uh, actually i was being honest. Seattle was up 13 with 2 minutes to go.

        • eYeDEF

          What does that have to do with the fact that Carr rallied the team back to within 6 with 1:52 to play and Helfet muffed the onside kick recovery and only because Kearse barely recovered it the Raiders didn’t have a shot to win it? It never should have been that close. Hardly a signature win.

          • [email protected]

            So what you’re saying is that the Raiders never had a shot to win because they didn’t recover the onside kick.

          • eYeDEF

            It’s hard to believe your reading comprehension skills are that poor so I’d just as soon give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re trolling.

          • Dohkay

            In fairness to Scott, looking at the live win probability Oakland was never higher than 15% in the 4th quarter. It was a close game score-wise but even if Oakland recovered that onside kick it would have taken a miracle to score a TD.

            I must now rinse off as I feel dirty.

          • [email protected]

            I think 15% is overstating their chances. Isn’t it about 1 in 9 to recover an expected onside kick? And then to score a TD against a defense that had played well all game?

          • Dohkay

            That was the high point for the entire 4th quarter, not at the time of the onside kick.